Comments on: Clojure editor/IDE options – IntelliJ v Emacs http://www.magpiebrain.com/2010/01/11/clojure-editoride-options-intellij-v-emacs/ The blog of Sam Newman Mon, 19 Jul 2010 18:05:24 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: Tom http://www.magpiebrain.com/2010/01/11/clojure-editoride-options-intellij-v-emacs/comment-page-1/#comment-8657 Tom Wed, 17 Feb 2010 00:53:51 +0000 http://www.magpiebrain.com/?p=664#comment-8657 Whilst other commenters have focussed on emacs as a whole, there are some specific clojure/lisp things that make emacs top dog for clojure development. The first is paredit. This makes emacs treat s-expressions properly, and ensures that you don't have to manually balence parens. It takes some getting used to, but it's addictive once you have it down. The other thing is slime, and in partiular clojure-test-mode. These two turn emacs into a near-IDE for clojure. Clojure test mode let's you run test files quickly, and get feedback pretty much instantly. This vastly speeds up tdd in clojure, as you don't have to wait for the jvm to start each tine you want to test. Finally, I wrote a clojure refactoring tool that works pretty nicely, and I don't think intellij has anything like that for clojure code (yet). Whilst other commenters have focussed on emacs as a whole, there are some specific clojure/lisp things that make emacs top dog for clojure development.

The first is paredit. This makes emacs treat
s-expressions properly, and ensures that you don’t have to
manually balence parens. It takes some getting used to, but it’s addictive once you have it down.

The other thing is slime, and in partiular clojure-test-mode. These two turn emacs into a near-IDE for clojure.

Clojure test mode let’s you run test files quickly, and get feedback pretty much instantly. This vastly speeds up tdd in clojure, as you don’t have to wait for the jvm to start each tine you want to test.

Finally, I wrote a clojure refactoring tool that works pretty nicely, and I don’t think intellij has anything like that for clojure code (yet).

]]> By: Sam Newman http://www.magpiebrain.com/2010/01/11/clojure-editoride-options-intellij-v-emacs/comment-page-1/#comment-4781 Sam Newman Wed, 13 Jan 2010 20:09:09 +0000 http://www.magpiebrain.com/?p=664#comment-4781 Not used org-mode - It'll be on my list when/if I go down the emacs path once again :-) Not used org-mode – It’ll be on my list when/if I go down the emacs path once again :-)

]]> By: Ben Butler-Cole http://www.magpiebrain.com/2010/01/11/clojure-editoride-options-intellij-v-emacs/comment-page-1/#comment-4658 Ben Butler-Cole Mon, 11 Jan 2010 13:44:02 +0000 http://www.magpiebrain.com/?p=664#comment-4658 The answer, of course, is that you are missing out by not using Emacs. Not only is it a fantastic editor, but it's a very interesting example of system design (not perfect by any means, but interesting -- specifically in the matter of extensibility). I strongly advise you to learn Emacs and therefore, ineluctably, to adopt it as your editor for everything. However I don't think it's a good idea to learn Emacs in order to use it as an IDE for a new language. There's no point overloading your poor brain with too much new stuff at once. It's madness that newcomers to Lisp are always told to use Slime. You do need something that will balance braces for you, but try to find something familiar (like IntelliJ) or helpful (like FranzLisp or DrScheme). If you correctly decide that you can't live a month longer without clasping Emacs to your bosom then use it for a project in a language that you know that has a good Emacs mode (js2mode might suit you) or just for text. Have you come across org-mode? Ben The answer, of course, is that you are missing out by not using Emacs. Not only is it a fantastic editor, but it’s a very interesting example of system design (not perfect by any means, but interesting — specifically in the matter of extensibility). I strongly advise you to learn Emacs and therefore, ineluctably, to adopt it as your editor for everything.

However I don’t think it’s a good idea to learn Emacs in order to use it as an IDE for a new language. There’s no point overloading your poor brain with too much new stuff at once. It’s madness that newcomers to Lisp are always told to use Slime. You do need something that will balance braces for you, but try to find something familiar (like IntelliJ) or helpful (like FranzLisp or DrScheme).

If you correctly decide that you can’t live a month longer without clasping Emacs to your bosom then use it for a project in a language that you know that has a good Emacs mode (js2mode might suit you) or just for text. Have you come across org-mode?

Ben

]]> By: Phil Dawes http://www.magpiebrain.com/2010/01/11/clojure-editoride-options-intellij-v-emacs/comment-page-1/#comment-4655 Phil Dawes Mon, 11 Jan 2010 13:00:22 +0000 http://www.magpiebrain.com/?p=664#comment-4655 For me I guess the upsides are: never using the mouse, aggressively optimizing keystrokes, macros, registers and elisp. Also a basic set of programming features that work for any language (code colouring, auto-indent, tags (poor man's jump to defn), macros, registers). This encourages me to try out new languages early. And emacs encourages my brain to treat any textual data as refactorable source which saves a ton of time when I'm sys-admining or troubleshooting. To be honest it's not the individual features that render it decent, it's the culture that strongly encourages you to optimize the hell out of everything. Steve Yegge has written a lot on this. See: http://steve.yegge.googlepages.com/effective-emacs http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/SteveYegge (probably worth reading for tips and motivation even if you never use emacs) Incidentally, this quote is one of his: "Emacs is to Eclipse as a light saber is to a blaster - but a blaster is a lot easier for anyone to pick up and use." Obviously Emacs is never going to compete with intellij on java features if that's important to you. For me I guess the upsides are: never using the mouse, aggressively optimizing keystrokes, macros, registers and elisp.

Also a basic set of programming features that work for any language (code colouring, auto-indent, tags (poor man’s jump to defn), macros, registers). This encourages me to try out new languages early.

And emacs encourages my brain to treat any textual data as refactorable source which saves a ton of time when I’m sys-admining or troubleshooting.

To be honest it’s not the individual features that render it decent, it’s the culture that strongly encourages you to optimize the hell out of everything. Steve Yegge has written a lot on this. See:
http://steve.yegge.googlepages.com/effective-emacs
http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/SteveYegge

(probably worth reading for tips and motivation even if you never use emacs)

Incidentally, this quote is one of his:
“Emacs is to Eclipse as a light saber is to a blaster – but a blaster is a lot easier for anyone to pick up and use.”

Obviously Emacs is never going to compete with intellij on java features if that’s important to you.

]]> By: Sam Newman http://www.magpiebrain.com/2010/01/11/clojure-editoride-options-intellij-v-emacs/comment-page-1/#comment-4645 Sam Newman Mon, 11 Jan 2010 12:00:51 +0000 http://www.magpiebrain.com/?p=664#comment-4645 Hang on, are you talking about IntelliJ or Emacs here? If your emacs takes 45mins to load, I suspect IntelliJ will take even longer :-) Hang on, are you talking about IntelliJ or Emacs here? If your emacs takes 45mins to load, I suspect IntelliJ will take even longer :-)

]]> By: Jonathan Hartley http://www.magpiebrain.com/2010/01/11/clojure-editoride-options-intellij-v-emacs/comment-page-1/#comment-4643 Jonathan Hartley Mon, 11 Jan 2010 09:59:39 +0000 http://www.magpiebrain.com/?p=664#comment-4643 You're missing out on having to wait 45 minutes for it to start up when you launch it. :-) You’re missing out on having to wait 45 minutes for it to start up when you launch it. :-)

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